Author Topic: Macro - for not much :)  (Read 2810 times)

Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 10:00:39 AM »
Anytime! :)

Offline Hellwrath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2012, 10:05:16 AM »
Hayath,
I remember asking you this question elsewhere and I forgot to read the follow up (is there a way to subscribe to threads?), but where did you get the flash bracket? Is it easy to use it, as in swivel the bracket? I had one long time ago and it was a pain to use it :(.

Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2012, 10:51:36 AM »
Had got this from a friend of mine...pretty basic single strip with one end which screws onto the tripod mount and the other having a flash hotshoe mount.

All I do to move/change the angle is loosen the screw and move position n tighten it back...pretty simple :)

Offline Omkar

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 12:20:17 PM »
@Hellwrath: I had a thread opened for a Flash bracket around a year back but I am unable to trace that thread. :(

Using the bracket can be easy as well as tedious based on the bracket design. Kirk, Manfrotto & some other have some macro bracket offerings.
I use this sometimes. Decent enough.

Hayath, What bracket do you use? Can you pls post a picture.
Nikon Dx Nikkor DxFx. Need a 70-200 f/4 VR N :D

Offline Prasad

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 01:41:34 PM »
Wonderful Information shared, Thank you very much for explaing the techniques in details.
Happy Clicking :)
Canon 550D+18-55+55-250+Tamron 90mm Macro
Wishlist: Canon 100-400L telephoto.

Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 03:09:35 PM »
You're welcome and I'd be glad if did help Prasad :)

Omkar,
  I generally use this kind of flat bracket

Occasionally use a borrowed "C" bracket

Offline Hellwrath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2012, 08:29:01 PM »
Thanks Hayath and Omkar :). Will look around to see if I can find something that's easy to use.

Offline kumarrishi

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2012, 10:10:08 AM »
Recently i have seen lot of debates about which macro filter to use - so just adding that up as a macro option for cheap.

Macro Filters
How to use?
You can screw this on the front of your lens like a UV filter etc and get better magnification. These are not specific to your lens mount and you can use any filter with any mount lens :-). You can also use it on a reverse lens with appropriate attachments. Its better to buy a larger filter size so that it attaches to most of your lenses.

How much magnification?
These are very cheap and come in different diopter magnification as +1,+2,+4.+8+10 and so on. The higher value means more magnification. There is some useful info i got  from the net " About the + x values - It is the so-called diopter value and is defined to be 1000/f, where f is the focal length of the close-up lens in mm. Therefore, a close-up lens of +4 has 250mm, and a close-up lens of 100mm has diopter +10. A higher diopter value means higher "magnification." If the camera lens is focused at infinite with a close-up lens mounted closely to the front element of the camera lens, the minimum working distance (i.e., the shortest distance from the front of the close-up lens to the subject) is approximately equal to the focal length of the close-up lens. This property is very useful. For example, if the camera lens has focal length F (the actual focal length rather than the 135 film equivalent) and if the close-up lens has focal length f, the magnification when the camera is focused at infinity is equal to F/f. Since the close-up lens' focal length is fixed,alongercamera focal length Fyields a higher magnification. "
I have used them with Macro /pseudo macro lens also with good magnification. With macro / pseudo macro which already have high quality glass they give much better result in terms of sharpness etc.

What happen to DOF and what is best focal length to use on?
 These filters will shorten the maximum focusing distance of the lens and your lens will focus very close perhaps a few inches and the DOF will also reduce considerably. For more magnification you can use higher diopter like +8, + 10 but with increasing diopter the DOF will also decrease. Other way to increase magnification is to increase focal length of lens its fitted on. Though i have used the filters on my 55-250 lens up to 200mm but at higher focal length the with increase in magnification the DOF reduces. They are better suited on focal length from 50mm upto 150-170mm beyond this they have DOF less than half a mm and its very difficult to focus. 

Cheap or high quality filters?
There are number of local, Chinese, Japanese etc etc filters available. Cheap ones like Sonia, Marumi (non achromats), hoya, etc made by number of brands. Some of them will get you started and understand how to use them with which lenses.The cheap ones are single element filters with lot of chromatic aberration, not so good sharpness, corner sharpness in particular is very bad. They do not have good coating also so in bright light they cause more problems. But Vikram has been using some filters which has given him good magnification without problem like these, so perhaps some of these are not so bad after all, its just when you find the limitations other than DOF which is true for all macro filters, reverse lens etc then you should move to better filters. I use filters to achieve 1:1 magnification and i did find problems with cheap filters.

Good quality ones - Raynox 150, 250 etc, Marumi DHG 330 or 200, Nikon 3T, 6T, Canon 500D, 250 D etc are more expensive but the image quality is also much better. Most of them do not go beyond +6 diopter but Raynox is an exception . I do not have experience with high diopter Raynoxes.

How to focus?
Well the only way to focus using these is to move forward and backward to find the proper focus which already is very close to you. The focusing ring of your lenses will throw the focus off more so you have to move yourself slightly ahead or back after you get the actual distance of focus.
Rishi Kumar- 09612009522/8575014648
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Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2012, 10:49:09 AM »
Fantastico Rishi! That is something which I'd overlooked, and is in fact the route many/most take
Have edited the original message to link to this post of yours :)

Offline biju

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2012, 10:51:36 PM »
hayath,
thanks for the very informative writeup.
also missed getting some practical lessons last weekend (kkhalli get together) :(
i have recently borrowed a minolta film camera which has an MD lens MD zoom 35-70mm and want to try it.
what would be the best for me as a beginner. buy a reversal ring and use it reversed or buy an ET and adapter ring (i guess the ET would need an adapter) and where in bangalore can i buy them.
thanks,
biju.

Offline kumarrishi

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2012, 11:42:09 PM »
List of achromatic lenses and more details
http://fuzzcraft.com/achromats.html
Rishi Kumar- 09612009522/8575014648
Digital Kit- Canon 40 D and some lenses, Film: Multi camera - multi format. http://www.flickriver.com/photos/kumarrishi/

Looking for Minolta/FD/Konica lenses for some experiment

Offline sandy9868

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2012, 10:23:16 AM »
Excelletn information Hayath. This can really helpful for those who are on low budget.

Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2012, 10:51:21 AM »
You're welcome Sandy!

Biju,
  I'd recommend the reversal ring over the ETs for a start. Ebay would be a better place to look, priced a lot better.

Offline kumarrishi

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2012, 12:21:18 PM »
Biju
You can try the reversed 35-70 .. i am not sure of the quality of lens, but if it is good you might end up with some great macro shots :-).
Ets work better with primes, with zoom its very cumbersome.

If planning to use ET try with 50 mm which depending on extension can give you different magnification.
Shorter length lenses like 28 mm etc if used on ET will have a very small working distance and if long ET is used than it can have a working distance in minus i.e. focus plane is inside the lens. Short lens work better when reversed. 28 mm can give you 3x magnification but DOF is really shallow. 50 mm reveresed will give you 1:1 macro and reversed on extension tubes give you more magnification.

regards

 
Rishi Kumar- 09612009522/8575014648
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Offline biju

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2012, 01:17:37 PM »
hayath,
thanks. saw this on the ebay. i think it is the correct reversal ring.
http://orders.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ImportHubViewItem&itemid=251100252817.

rishi,
appreciate the inputs. making initial attempts. tried some macro with closeup filters which were not very satisfactory.
so your thoughts are helpful.

biju.

Offline hayath

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2012, 01:27:19 PM »
Biju,
  That reversal ring would work for a lens which has a 55mm filter thread - do check the lens that you intend to use (which one?)
Have found the reversal rings for a lot less.

Mods: Sorry if discussing prices on other sites is frowned upon, will remove if it is :)

Offline kumarrishi

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2012, 03:37:13 PM »
hayath,
thanks. saw this on the ebay. i think it is the correct reversal ring.
http://orders.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ImportHubViewItem&itemid=251100252817.

rishi,
appreciate the inputs. making initial attempts. tried some macro with closeup filters which were not very satisfactory.
so your thoughts are helpful.

biju.

I have tried every method and here is what i feel.
1. Starting with screw on macro filter is good as it start bringing in the concept of low DOF gradually. When you attach a macro filter on a zoom lens 50-100mm range would be super easy to work with  and as you start going higher in zoom you will get more magnification and the actual problems of Macro - low DOF and low Light. Do not use the +8, + 10 directly start off with +2 , +4 etc first and see the result. If you feel comfortable you can go to next level of Achromat but only if you feel comfortable with macro filters.
2. Reverse mount is good to start with 50 mm lens with aperture ring (old versions in Canon FD ones and in Nikon AIS/AI etc). Your latest G lens (nikon ) and canon EF doesnt have aperture ring so it cant control aperture. There are mithods to control aperture on such lenses also but read carefully it can permanently damage the lens. Keep in mind more wider angle more magnification+less DOF+ more difficult to control.
3. Extension tubes work better with low distortion lens again 50 mm to start off with and can be added to any length pseudo Macro or Macro lens.

Using tripod with these methods would help much.

Get a 50 mm lens and reverse it...its your cheapest Macro lens with 1:1 Macro. And advantage of 50 mm :-). You can also use stepup or stepdown rings if your reverse mount adapter has larger or smaller thread.

I got reverse mount for around 250-300 rs.
http://www.ebay.in/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=reverse+mount&_sacat=See-All-Categories
 Its available in Ebay also. You can read detailed info provided by Hayath for more info on these setups.
Rishi Kumar- 09612009522/8575014648
Digital Kit- Canon 40 D and some lenses, Film: Multi camera - multi format. http://www.flickriver.com/photos/kumarrishi/

Looking for Minolta/FD/Konica lenses for some experiment

Offline amitk26

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2012, 06:28:25 PM »
Hi,

Excellent thread ,

For lens reversal in my experience old Auto-Takumar  type of lens are very convenient to use.

Auto takumar are M42 mount with a pin at the back and aperture closes only if the pin is pressed.
So suppose if you have mounted this reversed and if you want to shoot at F16 for better DOF you can still compose wide open and just press the pin with finger before you click.

Next best is Canon FD this lens also have a small lever at the back which can be used to close the aperture when needed but the problem is aperture will not be closed till another pin from the mount depresses a spring. So you need to use a toothpick to depress this sprint permanently before you do reverse mount.

This is way faster then old Nikkor lenses or other  M42 for which in which you need to fiddle the aperture ring back and forth to get precise focus.

Regards

Offline biju

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2012, 08:30:48 PM »
hayath,
the filter thread of the lens is 55mm. the link is the only reversal ring i found for attaching 55 mm lens in ebay. even i was surprised with the cost. will search for lesser priced one.

rishi,
thanks again. the lens appears to be in good shape.
will go back to the macro filters till i get the reversal adapter.
all canon adapters in the link you provided are priced around 1 K. maybe thats the price now.

biju.

Offline biswajit

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Re: Macro - for not much :)
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2012, 04:49:52 PM »
All the methods described above are very useful.

But after doing all these we faced the main problem: DOF
To get a descent picture with nice DOF, we can use focus stacking technique.

I would like to share this link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen, who describes focus stacking technique very well.

Regards
~Biswajit